MINUTES
RELAYING PRACTICES SUBCOMMITTEE
January 12-15, 2009, Atlanta, GA, USA
Chair: T. S. Sidhu
Vice-Chair: R. Beresh
Webmaster: M.R. Dadash Zadeh
This page was last updated on Feb 12, 2009 by Mohammad
 
Introduction:
The Subcommittee met on September 10, 2008 with 31 members and 52 guests a quorum was achieved.
  • Approval of previous I minutes from Vancouver,  2008 approved
  • Adcom mentioned that there was a record attendance of more than 250 from the PSRC
  • Adcom is requesting presentations for the main committee meetings
  • The Arlington Sept 2009 meeting will be extended by day (Wed PM) with SC meeting on the Thursday am and main committee meeting Tuesday pm
 
I1: Understanding Microprocessor-Based Technology Applied to Relaying
Chair: M.S. Sachdev
Vice-Chair: Ratan Das
Output:
PSRC Report
The Working Group did not meet in January 2009 during the joint technical meetings of the PES Committees in Atlanta.
After the September meeting of the PSRC, the Chair received comments from the PSRC Chair suggesting some changes in the WG document.  The suggested changes did not change the intent of the document.  It took two iterations to make the changes that satisfied the PSRC Chair.  The modified draft was then circulated to the WG and Subcommittee members for comments of substance.  The WG document is ready and a copy has been given the I Subcommittee Chair for posting on the Subcommittee website.  Another copy has been sent to Russ Peterson for posting on the PSRC web site.
The WG has completed its task and it is recommended that the WG be disbanded.
The SC disbanded the WG with thanks to the Chair and all members for their contributions.
I2: Terminology Usage Review
Chair: M. J. Swanson
Vice-Chair: Barb Anderson
Output:
Definitions for C37.100 and IEEE Std. 100
The I2 working group met at 11:00 am on Tuesday, January 13, 2009 with eight members and four guests. John Tengdin and Andre Uribe joined the working group. Mal Swanson chaired the meeting.
Minutes from the last meeting were approved.
C37.234: Oscar discussed the revisions to this document, which included removing definitions that were not related to protection. The working group recommended that Oscar request that all the original terms be kept in the Definitions section of the standard.
C4 Working Group paper: The working group discussed the term, contingency, which will be added to Group #6.
Mal updated the working group on the IEEE Definitions Database:
  1. All working group chairmen can gain free access to the Database by emailing a request for a password to Matt Ceglia at m.j.ceglia@ieee.org.
  2. All working group chairmen need to be sure to have definitions in a separate Definitions section, if they are developing a Standard, Guide or Recommended practice.
  3. Working group Chairmen can feel free to define non-protective terms in this section.
  4. Matt Ceglia will give members of the I2 Terminology working group passwords to the database by next week.
  5. Definitions must have a source document (Standard, Guide or Recommended Practice) to be included in the database. The working group will research with previous members to find sources for some terms in Groups 1 through 3.
Barb Anderson will have the newest revision of Group #6 emailed to working group members and Russ Patterson as DND 6_Rev.059. She will also email revised Groups 1 through 5, as well.
Barb will also check protection terms submitted by I2 to C37.100 to see if they have been included in the Database.
I3: Relay Functional Type Testing
Chair: J. Jodice
Vice-Chair: B. Gwyn
Output:
Report

The WG met with 9 members, 9 guests
The working Group focused on the structure of the report and decided on the sections that are needed and assigned authors to those sections
A standard template was agreed for writing a test report on a specific functional test
Several members will write a test report based on the specific example that they had previously presented to the Working Group.
A number of reports have been identified in the Industry on this topic and will be evaluated for referencing
The Working Group will continue to liaise with C11 - Guide for Power System Protection Testing to ensure there is no duplication of effort.
I4: IEC Standards Advisory
Chair: E. A. Udren
Vice-Chair: M. M. Ranieri
Output:
Comments and votes to USNC of IEC on TC 95 (Measuring Relays) Standards, projects and drafts.  Reports to PSRC on IEC standards development.

The WG met on January 13, 2009 with 7 members and 1 guest.
Typically, the WG discusses TC 95 documents, some requiring a vote to be sent through USNC.  In this meeting cycle, however, the WG got a break IEC circulated no new standards documents.
Murty Yalla is Convenor of Maintenance Team (MT) 4 of TC 95, developing new IEC relay functional standards. His team met in conjunction with the IEC General Meeting and TC 95 meeting in Sao Paolo, Brazil in November.  He reported on progress of functional standards projects in MT4:

  • 60255-151 Functional standard for over/under current protection excellent draft is nearly ready for final draft international standard (FDIS).

  • 60255-127 - Functional standard for over/under voltage protection  - a single curve implementation similar to -151, making progress and needing more work.

  • 60255-121 Functional standard for distance protection in early phase of development, and needs a lot of work to achieve formal CD.

  • 60255-149 Functional standard for thermal relays not yet begun update 60255-8.

  • 60255-187-1,2, etc. family of standards - Functional standard for differential protection bus, transformer, line, etc. not yet begun, and needs more definition.

Jodi Haasz of IEEE Standards described an accord she developed with IEC after a long deliberation process, on how to achieve dual logo status for C37.94 on optical fiber communications to multiplexers, and C37.118 Synchrophasor standard.  There will be joint development projects in which IEC groups can comment on drafts.  With this, IEC is enthusiastic about participation.

I5: Schematic Representation of Power System Relaying
Chair: Kevin Donahoe
Vice-Chair: Dave Zinn
Output:
Report
Jeff Long filled in for Dave Zinn.

The Working Group met for a single session with 6 members and 6 guests totaling 12 attendees on Wednesday, Jan. 14, 2009.

K. Donahoe started off by noting a drop in attendance due to simultaneous scheduling of WG C16 Relay Scheme Design using Microprocessor Relays.  Both working groups share the same membership, so our WG meeting attendance was split.  This was followed with a review of the minutes from May, introductions and discussion of proprietary and patent information.

 Jim Platt of Bonneville Power gave a presentation titled: One Lines & Schematics, The BPA Way.  Information provided on standard representation of multi-function relays (set 1/set 2) in a 500kV breaker-and-a-half scheme.  A full set of one-lines, three-lines, dc control, and wiring drawings were presented.

 J. Long provided a sample schematic of how to represent an ANSI 11 multi-function relay in a one-line diagram.

Discussion ensued on ideas for future assignments

J. Long suggested this group should offer methods for depicting IEC61850 GOOSE messages on schematics.  K. Donahoe offered to make a presentation on the use of GOOSE messages to replace breaker failure relays.  He noted that the GOOSE messages were shown in a table format.

In May, WG will need a meeting room accommodating 30 along with a projector.

The WG has completed its task and was disbanded at the Subcommittee meeting.
I6: Practical Application of Rogowski Coil Applications to Relaying
Chair: Ljubomir Kojovic
Vice-Chair: Bob Beresh
Output:
Report
Group met on Wednesday January 14, 2009 with 14 attendees.
This was our second meeting after completion of IEEE Std C37.235-2007: IEEE Guide for the Application of Rogowski Coils Used for Protective Relaying Purposes.
WG assignment is to produce a special report describing practical aspects of Rogowski Coil applications to relaying. Main discussion was about the table of contents.
Next meeting: Need room for 20 people and a computer projector (CP)
I9: Revision of C37.105 - Standard For Qualifying Class 1E Protective Relays And Auxiliaries For Nuclear Power Generating Stations
Chair: Sahib Usman
Vice-Chair: Roy Ball
Output:
Revision of C37.105
Meeting Minutes January 12, 2009
  1. The WG discussed the latest draft D10-8 that has incorporated resolutions and responses to all the negative comments on the previously balloted draft.
  2. Additional relevant changes were discussed in details. These changes are being incorporated in the final draft D10-9 to be issued soon for re-balloting. Jeff and Mario have volunteered to prepare the final draft.
  3. Matt Ceglia of IEEE SA advised that, for re-balloting, we need to submit to IEEE SA the following documents:
    • The latest draft of the standard
    • A spread sheet containing all negative comments/ballots, resolutions of all negative comments, and explanations for all additional changes included in the latest draft.
    • A cover letter
  4. A bridge document will also be prepared to link the C37.105 -1987 standard, the 2004 draft issued for balloting, and the latest draft to be issued for re-balloting.
  5. The WG is planning to get ready all necessary documents for re-ballotting in about 2 months (by the end of April, 2009).
I10: C37.98-1987 - Standard for Seismic Testing of Relays
Chair: M. Nemier
Vice-Chair: M. Bajpai
Output:
Revision of IEEE Standard C37.98
Meeting Minutes January 13, 2009
There were following members were in attendance:
  • Marie Nemier Co-chair PSRC
  • Suresh Channarasappa Co-Chair SC-2
  • Munnu Bajpai - PSRC
  • Roy Ball PSRC
Following is a review of the items discussed and the resulting action items.
  1. The IEEE SA Standards Bylaws on Patents in Standards and Inappropriate Topics were reviewed.
  2. Copies of the PAR were distributed and reviewed. Review of the PAR found that the PAR had been modified and the joint sponsorship was no longer on the PAR. Action item: Marie Nemier shall follow up with IEEE to determine how to restore the joint sponsorship to the PAR. Note: After the meeting, Marie Nemier met with Soo Kim from IEEE. Soo indicated that in fact the joint sponsorship was inadvertently dropped when the PAR was modified. She will follow up with Matt Ceglia and Lisa Yacone from IEEE to determine the action necessary to restore the joint sponsorship.
  3. Joint sponsorship of C37.98 between the PSRC and NPEC was reviewed. It was agreed that members of both working group will be copied on all information and meeting announcements. Following is the current list of the membership for both working groups: PSRC I-10 NPEC SC-2.6
    • Marie Nemier Co-Chair Suresh Channarasappa
    • Roy Ball Melanie Brown
    • Munnu Bajpai Arnold Offner
    • Mario Ranieri Dan Mikow
    • Jeff Burnworth
  4. Draft 2.0 November 2008 was distributed and it was agreed that the following topics will be addressed in the revision of the standard:
    • Update relay types in Table 1 to include multi-function, solid state & software based relays and to coordinate with C37.105
    • Use of the term ZPA
    • Coordination with IEEE 344 current revision
    • High frequency content
    • Contact monitoring criteria
  5. A conference call is scheduled for Wednesday February 4, 2009 at 9:30am. A meeting announcement will be sent out to all members.
  6. The next meeting of the SC-2 is in Knoxville, TN April 6-8. A working group meeting will be held at this meeting
I11: Guide for Applications of Optical Current & Voltage Systems
Chair: Harland Gilleland
Vice-Chair: Bruce Pickett
Output:
Guid

The meeting was called to order with 9 members & 2 guests.  We opened with a Welcome and Introduction of Attendees. There were opening discussions and review of the Agenda by Harley. Also a review 0f topics being covered in the 11 Sections in the Guide
The meeting was called to order with 9 members & 2 guests.  We opened with a Welcome and Introduction of Attendees. There were opening discussions and review of the Agenda by Harley. Also a review 0f topics being covered in the 11 Sections in the Guide
Next there was a focus on the five Sections and areas where work is primarily needed where we had spirited and productive discussions on the following topics:

  • Presentation by Farnoosh Rahmatian on Performance
  • Presentation by Michael Mendik on Testing
  • Discussion led by Vahid Madani on Applications
  • Presentation by Don Parker on Training
Harley discussed the changes in Working Group I-8 including that it would become WG I-11 and that a PAR is being developed and submitted. All of the previous work from I08 would be folded into the new WG.  New WG to be entitled WG-I-11, Guide for Application of Optical Instrument Transformers for Protective Relaying.
We request that the   WG I-11 session stay on Tuesday but moved from the 4:30 time slot which is a conflict for a number of our key member so they can not attend the I-11 session.
I15: Revision of C37.110, IEEE Guide for the Applications of Current Transformers Used for Protective Relaying Purposes
Chair: G.P. Moskos
Vice-Chair: B. Jackson
Output:
Revision of IEEE C37.110-1996
The WG did not meet
I17: Trends in Relay Performance
Chair: W.M. Carpenter
Vice-Chair: J.D. Wardlow
Output:
Periodic Reports to Subcommittee

The working group I17on Trends in Relay Performance met with 2 members and 13 guests on Tuesday January 13, 2009.  The results of the 2007 report were reviewed and discussed.  The report is available and will be posted in the PSRC web site as soon as possible.  The 2008 data is being collected and will be published before the May meeting. There was a good open discussion on trends as we move away from electromechanical relays and for the next meeting Mr. Phil Winton of Georgia Power and Mr. Gregory Sessler of ATC have agreed to make presentation on trending activities in their perspective companies.  In an effort to keep this committee going Mr. Mark Carpenter has asked that I assume the responsibility of chairman for this working group with Mr Gregory Sessler as vice chair, with the committees approval.

I18: Anomaly Checks for Relay Settings
Chair: Peter McLaren
Vice-Chair: M. Nagpal
Output:
Report

The WG met for a single session with 11 members and 6 guests
The WG further discussed the draft questionnaires for manufacturers and utilities.  The questions on security aspects were moved to the end of each questionnaire and some minor modifications were made to other questions. The WG decided that with these revisions the questionnaires were ready for circulation.  The circulation would be in the form of an email directed to individuals within the PSRC. The Chair undertook to organize the circulation as soon as the alterations to the questionnaires were complete.
The WG will meet for a single session at the next meeting, 20 people and we need a CP.
The WG will produce a report on relay software features and setting practices which minimize the possibility of wrong settings being downloaded to a relay. The WG will commence its task by conducting a survey of relay manufacturers and utilities to get information on present practice.
I19: Protective Relaying and Redundancy
Chair: S. Ward
Vice-Chair: B. Gwyn
Output:
Report to the main committee

The WG met with 26 members and 25 guests. Update on NERC SPCTF activities. The Working Group liaises with the NERC SPCTF on Protection Redundancy issues. The White paper on Protection Reliability has been completed and is now on the NERC web site. There will be a Tutorial on the White Paper this evening at 6 PM in Capitol South
The Report is practically completed with all major assignments complete and only a few minor contributions remaining including LAN Ethernet separation. Three people volunteered to review the whole document for consistency The Chair predicted that the report could be complete by the September meeting
The WG will liaise with the new H15 - Coupling Redundancy for Protection Systems using PLC
Next meeting 30 people, with computer projector
I20: Revision of C37.90.1 SWC Tests
Chair: Tom Beckwith
Vice-Chair: Tom Tennille
Output:
Revision of C37.90.1 SWC Tests
The fifth meeting of the Working Group (WG) I20 met on January 14, 2009, in Atlanta, GA, in a single session with 13 Members, and 6 Guests.
 The Minutes of Meeting #4 in Vancouver, BC, on September 9, 2008 were approved as submitted.
Review of IEEE PC37.90.1 Draft 3 edits.
 Tom Beckwith presented the present status of Draft 3 of the revised standard.  The WG discussed the new revision provided by Mario Ranieri and Jeff Burnworth that edited the Draft 3 document to put it into the latest IEEE standards template format. A MS Word comparison will be performed to assure no changes in content occurred during implementation into the standard format.
 The WG then discussed the latest revisions of waveforms and test applications of the associated IEC standards, and how PC37.90.1 should address or harmonize with the revised IEC standards.  Differences in the damped oscillatory were illustrated and discussed.  The WG also discussed the new IEC test requirement to apply a reduced magnitude (2kv) transient waveform in a transverse mode to communication inputs.  The WG questioned if IEC could provide background information or reason for the most recent revisions in waveforms and application.

A vote was taken on whether to adopt the revised IEC damped oscillatory waveform.  The result of the voting was 11 yeas and 1 nay.

Working Group Assignments
 Jeff Burnworth: Provide a comparison documents illustrating changes in Draft 3 before/after conversion to the standard IEEE template format.

Mario Ranieri: Identify clauses in Draft 3 that are associated with harmonizing with IEC standards.

Tom Beckwith: Acquire additional IEC standards required for reference.

Bui Dac-Phuoc & Jay Murphy: Review comparison table listings developed by Mario Ranieri and Jeff Burnworth for accuracy.

Ryan Bares: Review waveforms for inputs associated with harmonization.

Murty Yalla: Will contact the IEC to provide background information or reason for the most recent revisions in waveforms and application.

 Next Meeting Requirements: Single session; 20 attendees; Computer Projector.
 
Task Force Reports:
ITF1: Manufacturer's Services Letter Database
Chair: J. Jodice
Output:
Service Letter Database
ITF#1 met today. There were four PSRC members present.Mark Simon, Simon Richards, David Ward, Mario Ranieri. There have been no submissions of advisories since the last two meetings.

Offers of advisories from Bob Dempsey and Jeff Pond are expectedand will be transferred to the open DB at Doble. Chair will follow-up via email.

Simon Richards will request authorization to allow ITF 1 to provide a link to his companies web advisory & application services, as a means to access these reports.

Many past & present participants are concerned about supplying these public advisories, because of the potential negative impact on their associations with manufacturers.

For this TF to be successful, in providing archival knowledge to PSRC members, it was suggested that a PSRC [officer] request advisories from those relay manufacturers whose products are sold in North America.

I suggest a formal request be issued by the Chair of the main Committee, for maximum impact.

I am happy to provide whatever follow-up to that request is appropriate.
ITF2: Promotion of Dual Logo of C37.2
Chair: John Tengdin
Output:
Service Letter Database
The meeting was attended by five members and guests: Zeeky.Bukhala@ge.com, Jeff Gilbert (jggilbert@pplweb.com), Jodi Haasz (j.haasz@ieee.org), j.t.tengdin@ieee.org, Murty Yalla (myalla@beckwithelectric.com)

The TF Chairman advised that the Chair of the PES Substations Committee has decided to pursue the possibilities of an IEEE/IEC dual logo project with IEC TC 57, and that a letter to the Chairman of IEC TC 57 has been sent but no response to date.

Given the uncertainty of the IEC response, no meeting of I TF2 should be scheduled for the PSRC May meeting.
 
ITF8: Revision to Guide for Grounding of Instrument Transformer Secondary Circuits and Cases
Chair: B. Muligan
Vice-Chair: Bruce Magruder
Output:
Revision of IEEE/ANSI C57.13.3-2005
The Task Force ITF8, Revision of C57.13.3 - Guide for Grounding of Instrument Transformer Secondary Circuits and Cases, met in Georgia 6, Sheraton Atlanta Hotel, Atlanta GA on January 14, 2009.  Four members and three guests were present.

The Task Force discussed the plan to review the relevant IEC standards related to the grounding of instrument transformer secondary circuits and cases.  A list of potential IEC documents was reviewed and approved.  The Chair will work with the IEEE office to obtain copies of these documents.  The Task Force Vice-Chair will create a spreadsheet for the group to use to match up appropriate IEC and other documents to existing sections in the Guide.  Other IEEE documents were suggested for review and will be obtained.  One member (J. Pond) will be reviewing the NEC book.  One member (Z. Bukhala) will be reviewing grounding practices used in China.  The Task Force will need one more session to develop an outline of work, and will submit a proposal to the I Sub-Committee for review.  If the proposal is accepted, a working group will be formed.

The Task Force will meet in Pittsburgh in May 2009 to discuss the spreadsheet of potential revisions to the Guide.  We will use the Wednesday 8:00 a.m. time slot, room for 25 people, and will need a computer projector.
 
Liaison Reports:

RE: Instrument Transformer Sub Committee, Liaison
The Instrument Transformer Sub Committee met in Portugal this fall.  The minutes have been approved but are not yet posted.  The Transformer Committee is not with us at this joint meeting.

  1. The latest version of the C57.13 .2008, Instrument Transformer Standard, has completed Standard Committee balloting and is now out for printing.
    A new task force has been created to review further proposed changes to C57.13.  The chairman, Jim Smith, is seeking any changes that the PSRC members would like to see reviewed.

  2. The optical standard was out for vote so the Working Group did not meet this fall.
Coordination Reports:
None to report .
Old business:
None to report .
New Business:
I19 suggested to create a group to start a survey for redundancy i.e. make a new updated survey for redundancy.
 
Respectfully submitted,
T.S. Sidhu, Chairman, Relaying Practices Subcommittee